Curse

JoDiamonds · Jun 04, 2005, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

GW is a game won "with skill, not hours played". Hence, not every build was created equal. Otherwise there would be no strategy. You can enjoy the game however much you want to, but just know that your charcter cant do squat compared to almost any other build. I dont see what so fun about sucking miserably and dying all the time, anyways.

Guildwars is a rock-paper-scissors game. Of course not all builds are equal, and all builds have a counter which can be defeated. There is no best build (unless Arena Net has screwed up).

The strategy isn't in finding the perfect build. It's having a cohesive character as part of a cohesive team, and constantly adapting your build against whatever you are actually playing against (whether it be PvP or PvE).

Also, the only way to find better methods is to actually try and use different ones. The same large group of people who use "sub par" builds are the only ones capable of finding new strategies and combinations.

And, amazingly, playing a different build doesn't mean you suck and die all the time. That's mostly dependent on who you are playing with.

fireflie · Jun 04, 2005, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by relientK_fan

Yeah, what's wrong with a monk wanting to do damage? Smiting does a lot of damage if you max it, and it cuts straight through armor. I think anyone who thinks a Monk can't do damage is retarded. Smiting monks make great monk protectors in PvP, and in PvE they're powerful. But if you're the only monk in the group, expect to get yelled at, because they expect you to heal them.

Yes, soooo soooo true. Fortunately I have a good "regular" HoH group. Our healers are E/Mo and I'm a pure smiting monk --healer/monk defender.

I remember I kept a Rez signet instead of res skill b/c it's quick and people yelled at me (even though I'm not the one who was really rezzing ppl). Silly people!

Zilm · Jun 06, 2005, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trenchsoul

So-cal, re-read my posts before you say something, apparently you can't read. I give up trying to argue online, its pointless since no one can read and will interpret things in hostile ways to find excuses to call each other names and acuse them of eating babies.

And you are not guilty of being hostile now are you Trench?

shawn23233 · Jun 06, 2005, 03:20 PM // 15:20

"My character is a Mo/W. Instead of using healing skills like a typical monk, I combine high sword attacks and powerful smiting skills to kill enemies quickly.

What's wrong with this? "

Nothing wrong with it. However, understand that when people invite you to HoH group they expect to get Protection or Healing monk. Announce in your LFG that you are Smiting monk and then people should know before they invite you. I have done smiting groups and they can be very effective, but the entire group must be structured and equiped for that strategy. I would guess you are running into resistence because these groups are not structured to run a smiting monk.

EinValentine · Jun 06, 2005, 04:09 PM // 16:09

One of the problems in this game is that there is a high, but not complete, correspondence between certain professions and certain core roles in a group. This causes confusion and resentment.

When a group leader says in chat, "I'm looking for a Monk" what he really means is usually, "I'm looking for a character that specializes in damage mitigation or healing." Most of the time that job description is going to be filled by a Monk - but not always. A well built E/Mo can handle healing quite well. A Nec/Mo could, should they choose to spec in curses and protection, handle damage mitigation well also. And obviously a Mo/W specializing in Smite and a weapon isn't going to do that job at all.

Like it or lump it, that is what is generally meant by "Party seeking a Monk". What is NOT meant is "Hey we want a Monk just cause he's a Monk and we don't care how he's specced."

If you are running a Smite Monk you shouldn't be trying to get into groups that are looking for healers and damage mitigators. You should be trying to get into groups that are looking for big damage dealers. They announce this by saying, "Party seeking Elementalists".

It would be nice if people actually said what they really meant, but that just isn't the way it works, sadly. If you are running a build that goes contrary to general expectation then the onus is on YOU to make it clear what your capabilities are and to seek groups that are willing to make appropriate use of them.

Jackathan · Jun 06, 2005, 04:16 PM // 16:16

I think you want to be an elementalist or a necro or a mesmer. If you're intrested in casting spells for damage, go play as them.

There is no advantage to a Mo/W or a Mo/anything in relation to dealing damage. Sure, a W/Mo wouldnt have as much energy, but an E/Mo does though, and is far more effecient in smiting skills due to the large amount of energy they have. So if you want to do damage, especially smiting damage, go E/Mo

WillOrWil · Jun 06, 2005, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trenchsoul

Why is everyone crying about "stereotype" monks? Did everyone just ignore my post? In PvE there is one kind of monk, a healing monk. People think monk=healer because that is what they are. Why are two out of the three trees for monk healing and protection? Because that's the function of the class. You can kick and scream all you want, but the primary function of monks is to heal. In WoW a lot of people liked playing Shadow Preists because you could deal incredible amounts of damage, but only in 1v1 or small group PvP and soloing in PvE. In groups nobody will, or ever will, invite a shadow preist on a raid. That isn't their function. I can't say it enough. Just as I don't expect an elementalist to try to tank, even if he wants to really really bad. His function is damage, in some form or another.

LOL I love reading your posts Trenchsoul. You are just so blindly arrogant of how close-minded you are... Well... It is just entertainment!

First, no one ignored your post. Most everybody glossed over your stubborness. There is NOT one type of monk. Think of it this way. Have you played a Warrior? Does not a warrior have a tree for Hammer, Sword and Axe? Using YOUR argument with the Monk skill tree I can say, "All warriors should specialize in weapons!" Now...that makes sense...to a three year old. But turn four years old and it doesn't. LOL

You see, for a warrior to be truly effective the warrior has to specailize in one of the three options. That is the same choice people have when playing a monk. You can either be a Smiter, Protector or Healer.

Okay, take a deep breath Trenchsoul. Breathe. Feel the calm. Imagine and go to your happy place.

Yes. There are basically three types of monks. Also Santa Claus isn't real and the Easter Bunny doesn't exist.

It is true. There is a HUGE shortage of monks in the game. (That is a whole other topic, btw.) But just because YOU think monks should ONLY heal...that doesn't mean they have to or that they should only do that. This is a "game". People are free to play whatever type of character they want, however they want to. You can stereotype all you want, complain and moan about it. But the world isn't going to ever follow what you want, when you want it...no matter how much of a stink you raise.

GW isn't WoW.

The primary function of a monk is to be whatever the player chooses it to be.

Let's repeat this together. There are basically three types of monks. A Smiting Monk, a Protection Monk and a Healing Monk.

Now I know you've gotta be all red-faced and angry sitting in your chair just waiting for this post to end so you can reply with your usual entertaining style. So I will just leave it at this.

To quote Stewie from Family Guy, "Dance, puppet! Dance!"

Tutompop · Jun 06, 2005, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Ah, how I love monk threads.

Anywho, I'm going to have to agree with trenchsoul that most people asking for a monk (in my experience as a monk) want a healer/protector or some variant of the two and not a smiter. It is true that you are free to play the game however you want but be fair to the rest of us and tell us you're a smiter. You may yet get a group and if you have a good group you may well outshine a group with a healer. However, given that every other class can also do damage in some form just as you can do not expect to be snatched up with the same frequency as the healer variant since in my experience the healer is effectively a "We just screwed up, please save us from our mistake" character. The healer allows for groups to be human and make mistakes or not be the "perfect" build and I love it that I am able to pull groups back from the brink or from a bad pull that would have stomped them flat otherwise. Thats just part of the fun for me (I'm integral even if they don't know it).

That is not always the case; there have been times where I end up sitting on my hands the majority of a mission/quest since the group meshes well and everybody does their jobs well. Whether that be a ranger built for tanking/a necro built for damage/a elementalist built for damage mitigation is all up to the player. The problem I see with the "odd class build" is that few are built well, but rather they're built poorly and do not compensate for the weaknesses brought on by that build. This is more critical for the monk class than a poorly built warrior(his armor still works even if his skill bar is half way worthless.) but believe you me as a healing monk I know well the difference between a warrior built like a tower of tinker toys and somebody who thought out his build. The poorly built smiter gets in the fight but still has his monk armor on, can't take hits at all without me dumping loads of heals on him and dies shortly thereafter. It is incredibly enticing to go for damage that ignores armor (smiters main advantage imo) but at the same time it is somewhat difficult to keep yourself alive while doing that damage since the fun ones like baltharzars and mark of retribution are up close and personal. You mo/wars out there ignoring any kind of defense in favor of the sword/smite/anything but protection spells are only hurting yourselves. However, if you're build is successful and you are actually contributing to the group rather than being a mana sponge then god help the mobs that you run up against.

Winterclaw · Jun 06, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Asking for a healer is only two extra letters so I don't see why people can't type them in. When I need a healer, I try to specifically state "looking for healer" and I'll take anyone who's up for the task. Mo/x, E/mo, whatever. I sometimes ask a monk what type he is before going on a mission, but I'm hardly perfect about it. I think that I ask because when I was in the arenas for the first time, one of the first monks I grouped with told me he was a protection monk. So I kind of learned from experience that not all people playing monks want to be healers.

If someone doesn't want to be a healing monk that's fine, but know other's expectations and let them know about your PC.

PS. A big thank you to all the monks that have helped to keep my tank going strong.

PPS. I've learned that a big monk problem in PvP at least is often keeping the elementalist alive without wasting too much mana. You people new to monks might want to think of that before heading into PvP. You new elementalists should also keep that in mind and try to carry at least one defensive skill. I'm not sure how it is later on, but earlier it is a problem. I think my E/W uses watch yourself (no mana cost) or armor of earth.

Jahara Zeppelin · Jun 06, 2005, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Well, I PM'd you ingame offering you help with a mission you was currently doing out of shear kindness, and then I think you blocked/ignored me or something when I asked...

Arri · Jun 06, 2005, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trenchsoul

So-cal, re-read my posts before you say something, apparently you can't read. I give up trying to argue online, its pointless since no one can read and will interpret things in hostile ways to find excuses to call each other names and acuse them of eating babies.

no actually, I read your first post in this thread, then stoped reading them, why?

In EVERY single of your posts here, your eather going "THEY ARE RIGHT SAYING U SUX IF U ARNT HEALER! MONKS CAN ONLY HEAL!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH" or trying to insult someone for saying "Healing isn't all monks do."

is your veiw so limited as to think EVERY class can only do ONE thing and nothing else? Why are you even playing Guildwars then? Go play one of the MMORPGS that you have to PAY for and each class can only do ONE job, and leave the players that can actually think about stratigy play without your type ruining it for us.

Ishamael Sedai · Jun 06, 2005, 11:35 PM // 23:35

I am a warrior/mo but I use a monk in pvp some. In pve I what I did as a w/mo to help out my mo's was ask the monks to click on their energy after each fight. I told the other warriors if you run away and agro another group before their energy bar is full don't blame them for you dying. It was funny watching the impatient people, but I used this strategy through the crystal desert to beating the game.

funbun · Jun 07, 2005, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by so_cal_forever

What's wrong with this? Everything, apparently.

I've hardly gotten into any groups because of this. The second they find out, they either kick me or start screaming at me because "MONKS ARE SUPPOSED TO STAY IN THE BACK AND HEAL, NOTHING ELSE!" I've seriously heard variations of this comment way too many times.ways get into groups can actually weather the crystal desert quests.

I hear ya. Just hang in their. Focus on Ascending. Smiting monk is te best way to beat you Monk Mirror. Once you Ascend you can play however you want. Just use henchies if they don't want you. My monk is a Smite Monk. Area.net has made the monk character a very balanced character.

Start forming your own groups. That way YOU set the standard and you have to worry about making up for someone else's suckage.

I don't know why more monks dont use Smite. They get to the mirror and they can't win because all they have done is become a Heal-bot. They don't know how to kill!

Also, If you decide to use henchies you will need Smite. People who disrespect you like that are not worth playing with. Screw'em! Put them on the ignore list. No one complains when Elmos go to battle with a healing build. You have the right to play your character any way you choose. Thinking and strategy is what its all about.

So, I encourage you to continue Smiting. It WILL pay off!

Red Locust · Jun 07, 2005, 02:37 AM // 02:37

The mirror is just one part of the whole game, and it takes little effort to simply re-spec in smiting for that one fight and then go back to your healing monk. Seriously, if you wanted PBAoE, you're better off going with an earth ele that maybe takes monk secondary and smiting.

funbun · Jun 07, 2005, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoDiamonds

Would you assume that a Necromancer is going to help heal with Well of Blood? Or that they will help stop casters using Curses? If not, then why assume a Monk is going to do anything in particular? Seems like other people are setting themselves up for disappointment too, not just the smiting monk.

=-p

Okay, I'll play along. The purpose of a monk is to keep the group alive. There are 3 ways to do this:

1. Smite: Weaken the enemy so they die faster (similar to Mesmer)
2. Protect: Prevent damage from happeningin the first place.
3. Heal: patch up the group once they have already begun to die.

It's a different perspective. Healing is only one way to keep a group alive.